Saturday, 5 July 2008

"We are now going to pray to Allah"

Two schoolboys were allegedly disciplined after refusing to kneel down and "pray to Allah" during a religious education lesson.

It was claimed that the boys, from a year seven class of 11 and 12-year-olds, were given detention after refusing to take part in a practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.

Yesterday parents accused the school of breaching their human rights by forcing them to take part in the exercise.

One, Sharon Luinen, said: "This isn't right, it's taking things too far. I understand that they have to learn about other religions. I can live with that but it is taking it a step too far to be punished because they wouldn't join in Muslim prayer.

"Making them pray to Allah, who isn't who they worship, is wrong and what got me is that they were told they were being disrespectful."

Another parent Karen Williams, 38, whose 12-year-old daughter is a classmate of the boys, said: "I am absolutely furious my daughter was made to take part in it and I don't find it acceptable.

"The teacher had gone into the class and made them watch a short film and then said 'we are now going out to pray to Allah'.

"Then two boys got detention and all the other children missed their refreshments' break."

She added: "Not only was it forced upon them, my daughter was told off for not doing it right.

"They'd never done it before and they were supposed to do it in another language."

She said the pupils were asked if they had water on them, and when one girl produced a bottle, the teacher began washing her feet with it.

Her husband Keith, 44, a painter and decorator, said: "The school is wonderful but this one teacher has made a major mistake. It seems to be happening throughout society. People think they can ride roughshod over our beliefs and the way we live."

The alleged incident, at the Alsager school, one of Cheshire's top performing schools, happened on Tuesday afternoon. The teacher, Alison Phillips, the school's subject leader in RE, is understood to be staying away from the school until the furore dies down, although she has not been suspended.

She is said to have got prayer mats out of the cupboard and also asked children to wear Islamic headdresses.

Deputy headmaster Keith Plant said: "I have spoken to the teacher and she has articulately given me her version of events."

Sources at the school said the incident could have been down to Miss Phillips instigating a role play and not properly briefing the pupils, all aged around 12, what she was doing.

A couple of points stand to be made here. The first is that compelling children to engage in or to simulate Islamic rituals, without asking the consent of their parents, and treating them as miscreants when they refuse to do so, is totally unacceptable. As many other bloggers have already pointed out, it is rather difficult to imagine that any teacher would dare to compel Muslim children to engage in acts of Christian worship against their will.

It's true that British state schools are obliged to hold acts of collective worship of a Christian character. But this simply reflects the fact that Christianity is, and has for 1,500 years been, the majority religion of our country, and is a fundamental building block of our native culture. More pertinently, parents have the right to withdraw their child from all such collective acts of worship, should they feel strongly enough about it. From the details of the incident at Alsager School, it would seem that Ms Phillips' actions went, at the least, against the spirit of respect for parental choice which is the basis for this exemption.

More generally, I am inclined to wonder why the children were being expected to perform or simulate Islamic acts of worship anyway. After all, in order to learn about Islam one does not actually need to engage in such acts. Presumably, this is simply another instance of the ridiculous "make learning fun" approach, under which children spend their time imagining what it might be like to be a Muslim, or "a Spanish sailor about to embark in the Spanish Armada", or, as occurred in my own schooldays, a fellow passenger of Rosa Parks', or an Egyptian slave labourer working on the pyramids. All very enjoyable no doubt, and easy on the teacher too (washing one's feet and distributing prayer mats is probably rather less challenging than explaining the finer points of Sharia law), but not something which leaves the pupil with any actual knowledge of the subject, and not something which really has a place in any class other than Drama.

Finally, I have to ask: if Ms Phillips really wanted to show the children how Muslims pray, should she not have taken herself and the girls in the class off to a separate room, to ensure that lewd thoughts did not distract the boys from their devotions? That is, after all, what would have happened in a real mosque. Or do RE teachers commonly write Islam's less palatable aspects out of the script?

Hat-tip: Homophobic Horse (in the comments)

46 comments:

JuliaM said...

Check out the 'Mail' online for a longer quote from the Deputy Head.

Clearly, he's never been on a PR course..!

Homophobic Horse said...

Multi-culti is a cult of ignorance. It doesn't require you to know anything, except being "open" and "tolerant".

There was another famous man who was "open" and "tolerant." His name was JIM JONES. He participated in new-age rituals and spiritualism in the early 1950's and then began to think he was the reincarnation of Buddha, Lenin, and Jesus. By the end of his life he though he was in contact with "discarnate extra-terrestrial entities" i.e. demons.

When you give yourself over to a vague idea of "tolerance" and "openness" the demons get in and begin to act. The complete irrationality displayed in the arrest of the makers of "Undercover Mosque" is a dark sign of the times.

bernard said...

'Jesus loves Osama' is the title on one of mizz Phillip's pdf folders, if you dig deep enough into their Prospectus, which incidentally, has photos galore of white pupils only.(?)

Jesus loves Osama.

Ms Phillips loves him too, by all accounts.

IftikharA said...

Salaam

London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make
British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the
Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.

Slough Islamic school Trust Slough had a seminar on Muslim
education and schools in Thames Valley Atheltic Centre. The seminar was
addressed by the education spokesman of MCB. I could not attend the seminar
but I believe lot of Muslims from Slough and surrounding areas must have
attended. Very soon, the Muslims of Slough will have a state funded Muslim
school but there is a need for more schools. A day will come when all Muslim
children will attend state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim
teachers as role model.

Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less
bilingual schools.

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the
National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the
Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.

Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a
problem. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not
want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours
from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan.

More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school
system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60
years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the
Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British
Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least
likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated
500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the
state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are
underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a
non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education
is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others. Let Muslim
community educate its own children so that they can develop their own
Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities and become usefull members of
the British society rather than becoming a buden.

We are living in an English speaking country and English is an
international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well
versed in standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu
and other community languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach?

It is not only the Muslim community who would like to send their children to
Muslim school. Sikh and Hindu communities have started setting up their
schools. Last week. British Black Community has planned the first all black
school with Black teachers in Birmingham.

Scotland's first state funded Muslim school could get the go-ahead within
months after First Munister Alex Salmond declared he was sympathetic towards
the needs and demands of the Muslim community.

Iftikhar Ahmad
London School of Islamics Trust
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

bernard said...

Iftikhara.

I think we would all be happy to read your 'triumphalist' comment if your demands (at our largesse) were reciprocated in those other Muslim countries where Christian communities/churches are routinely harassed and persecuted for doing what you are achieving over here.

But I doubt that very much.

Spook said...

That teacher should be fired with extreme prejudice. And kudos for those boys who refused to take part.

If it was my son I'd take him out to dinner and buy him any new video games or clothes he wanted.

JuliaM said...

"Its aim is to make
British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the
Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions."


Mr Ahmad, to parphrase Doris Murphy in 'A League of their Own: "You think there are people in Britain who ain't aware of the demands of the Muslim 'community'..?"

"Majority of them are
underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time."


Really..? Then how do you account for the educational successes of the other demographics with similar backgrounds?

"There is no place for a
non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school."


That attitude will take you far in this country, Mr Ahmad...

Anonymous said...

Do you know what Julia I think he does know that...unless something happens in the political village.

Homophobic Horse said...

Lawrence Auster: Muslims are permitted to invade Britain; Muslims are given extraordinary recognition, honors, subsidies, and influence in Britain; Muslims are allowed to set up all-Muslim areas in Britain where British people are intimidated and attacked; Muslims are allowed with impunity to threaten jihad and mass death against Britain, while British people are tried as criminals or deprived of their livelihood for saying anything critical about Islam; Muslims are elected to the British parliament; and then one of these Muslim MPs declares that Britain is treating Muslims the way Germany treated Jews.

little miss pipedream said...

you're all ridiculous
& it's all a lie.
i know someone from in the class.
yes miss phillips is crazy purely 'cause she loves to teach idiots about other religions, when tbh no one cares.

JuliaM said...

"you're all ridiculous
& it's all a lie.
i know someone from in the class."


Don't stop there. Tell us what you think of it. You can hardly do worse than the rambling fool of a headmaster, after all.

"yes miss phillips is crazy purely 'cause she loves to teach idiots about other religions, when tbh no one cares."

She can teach about other religions all she wishes, so long as that it what she is paid to do by the school.

She is NOT permitted to encourage children to pray to ANY god as part of RE lessons.

little miss pipedream said...

she didn't,
they were taking the mick out of the muslim religion & THAT is why they got detention.
thats why it is ridiculous how worked up everyone is gettingg.

JuliaM said...

Intriguing, if true. And it wouldn't be the first time a MSM story played a little fast and loose with the facts. Still, I'd be less inclined to believe a single complaint - several parents are quoted, however.

However, this is still disturbing in its own right: "Sources at the school said the incident could have been down to Miss Phillips instigating a role play and not properly briefing the pupils, all aged around 12, what she was doing."

Even if those sources are correct, you don't 'role play' prayer. Unless you are stupid.

This bears watching, to see what followup is released by the school body after the investigation.

little miss pipedream said...

what do you know?
you don't even go to that school fool!

JuliaM said...

"what do you know?
you don't even go to that school fool!"


Do you...? If so, please enlighten us. And please inform us as to your opinion of the proper use of 'role play' in a religious education setting.

And as for what I know, I suspect I know quite a bit more than you. Especially if you are a product of the modern educational system.

Which, given the way you react when others choose to question, rather than to simply accept, your point of view, you almost certainly are...

little miss pipedream said...

yes i do go to that school thank you very much AND i am entitled to my own opinion i'm sorry if that doesn't comply with yours.
are you also saying that there is a problem with todays educational system? because i believe alsager school do a pretty good job considering they hardly get any funding from the government.

JuliaM said...

"...yes i do go to that school thank you very much AND i am entitled to my own opinion..."

And, who here is saying that you aren't..? This is a blog. Your comments are your opinion.

So, as I asked, what is your opinion of 'roleplaying' within an RE context?

"...are you also saying that there is a problem with todays educational system? because i believe alsager school do a pretty good job considering they hardly get any funding from the government."

Yes, there is indeed a problem with today's educational system. Interesting that you think 'more funding' will solve any problems. What would 'more funding' have got the school in this particular circumstance?

Apart from 'How not to make a complete spoon of yourself to the press' lessons for the deputy head...

little miss pipedream said...

i think roleplaying is an excellent way to teach pupils about other religions.
more funding would not help these particular circumstances i was stating that alsager school was a good one & the teachers and deputy head do one hell of a job to keep it that way.
you're a fool by trying to put this school down.
what are you american? hahaha.

Electrichloe said...

Okay juliam
The deputy head did his best in a situation he wasn't expecting, people don't spend their days planning for the day the press might just happen to turn up, because at the end of the day the school is just a normal hard-working school who focus their time on doing the best they can do for their students and not the best they can do for the press.

I know for a fact Alsager school has done brilliantly on OFSTED reports, and nothing has been said and about racism or anything of the like, this was just simply a case of roleplay gone wrong

I feel that yes, the teacher has made a mistake, but everyone makes them. With her experience it is shocking that she made one, but she has been dealt with and I don't think she meant to offend. I know the woman, she wouldn't hurt a fly!

And role-play is an effective way to learn. Much better than someone droning on at you endlessly. I was once taught by the teacher in question and I'm a catholic, never have I felt like other religions are being forced upon her.

I think this is just another case of people making a mountain out of a molehill

Electrichloe said...

must correct myself sorry
I said 'felt other religions being forced upon her'
I meant me not her
I do apologise

JuliaM said...

"i think roleplaying is an excellent way to teach pupils about other religions."

Roleplaying to include praying? So, if Muslim pupils were told they should recite the Talmud, that would be OK? Or Hindu children told to dance widdershins skyclad?

"..more funding would not help these particular circumstances i was stating that alsager school was a good one & the teachers and deputy head do one hell of a job to keep it that way."

It doesn't seem to me that they do, given this furore or the increased media attention. And the quality of their staff seems to leave a lot to be desired.

"you're a fool by trying to put this school down.
what are you american? hahaha."


No, not American. English. But if I was, that would make my comments irrelevant somehow..?

I think I wouldn't be happy to send any kids I had to this school, if this is the sort of pupil they turn out.

JuliaM said...

"The deputy head did his best in a situation he wasn't expecting, people don't spend their days planning for the day the press might just happen to turn up...."

Then they say 'No comment' and refer everything to those whose job it it to comment.

"I know for a fact Alsager school has done brilliantly on OFSTED reports, and nothing has been said and about racism or anything of the like, this was just simply a case of roleplay gone wrong"

Was it? That remains to be seen. 'Roleplay' should not include forcing children to pray to any god.

"I feel that yes, the teacher has made a mistake, but everyone makes them. With her experience it is shocking that she made one, but she has been dealt with and I don't think she meant to offend. I know the woman, she wouldn't hurt a fly!"

Calm down. No-one's proposing burning her at the stake. But if she did what the parents are claiming she did, she went too far and she needs to take the rap for it. Keyword being 'if'....

"And role-play is an effective way to learn. Much better than someone droning on at you endlessly. I was once taught by the teacher in question and I'm a catholic, never have I felt like other religions are being forced upon her."

These parents and children obviously felt differently. Don't make the mistake of assuming that your's and their reactions should automatically be the same.

"I think this is just another case of people making a mountain out of a molehill"

It may well be. But telling pupils of one faith to 'roleplay' praying to another faith is asking for trouble, and betokens a serious lack of judgement.

For the record, I don't believe in any god. But that doesn't mean I condone pupils being told to 'roleplay' praying to a deity not of their own faith.

Electrichloe said...

I wouldn't know to say No Comment and I'm not an idiot despite what you seem to believe about the pupils of alsager school.

"'Roleplay' should not include forcing children to pray to any god."

As little miss pipedream has tried to explain to you before, the truth that has emerged from fellow students at the school is that the students were given detention for making fun of the religion, not for not taking part in the roleplay. I'm sure if someone had stepped forward and said 'I'm sorry, I feel this is not right for my religion' then the teacher would have respected this, but from what I've heard from the people who actually went through this and not the twisted tales of the press, that that was simply not the case.

"But if she did what the parents are claiming she did, she went too far and she needs to take the rap for it. Keyword being 'if'...."

I never said that if she did do it then she shouldn't be punished. But what I'm saying is that I can't believe it. I know the school. I know it's students. I know the teachers involved. I've known all of these for a number of years, and it's with this background knowledge and the good education I've had from the school that I put my faith in its faculty.

The teacher never asked them to convert. She never preached about the virtues of the religion. In my experience she's always been very fair. It's sad that this has happened to her after all her years of work for the school, but I guess too much of a fuss has been made of the matter now and I don't see her being the same again.

Anonymous said...

IF YOUR ON ABOUT MR PLANT AS THE DEPUTY HEAD HE IS FULL OF SHIT ANY WAY GRRRRR I HATE HIM THE BASTARD DIDN'T THINK I WAS GONNA GET INTO SIXTH FORM


plus i know some one from that class and they told me that they were messing around miss Phillips is a good teacher i've had her for two bloody years mind i hate re and she made it sort of interesting so WTF if you actually under stood whats going on it was a hypocritical old man which when to the press ! i know for a fact because i joined in a conversation in the local post office with a the shop clerks and another hypocritical old man who believed we should only be taught about Christianity he was even against beliefs of evolution he had is mind so made up he walked out of the shop muttering we were low lives and the teacher should be punished!


what for because they were taught some thing new THEY ARE FUCKING YEAR SEVENS THEY ARE GOING TO LIE AS WELL ESPECIALLY IF THEY GOT THEM SELVES DETENTION BECAUSE U LIE TO MAKE WHAT YOU'VE DONE NOT SEEM AS BAD AND YOU'VE BEEN WRONGLY PUNISHED I DID I'M SURE MOST PEOPLE HAVE BUT THIS GOT OUT OF HAND AND SHOULD BE DROPPED IMMEDIATELY IF NOT IT WILL TURN OUT LIKE THE VIDEO WHICH WENT ON YOUTUBE THOSE PUPILS COULD OF GOT A CRIMINAL RECORD AND THE TEACHER COULD OF BEEN SACKED UNFAIRLY!!!!


any ways i dont care shes a good teacher!

JuliaM said...

"I wouldn't know to say No Comment and I'm not an idiot..."

You're presumably not an adult then, unlike (supposedly) the deputy head, who ought to have had some guidance on speaking to the media in his training. I bet you know how not to handle such and encounter now though...?

"...the truth that has emerged from fellow students at the school is that the students were given detention for making fun of the religion, not for not taking part in the roleplay. I'm sure if someone had stepped forward and said 'I'm sorry, I feel this is not right for my religion' then the teacher would have respected this, but from what I've heard from the people who actually went through this and not the twisted tales of the press, that that was simply not the case."

Has this version appeared in the press yet? If so, can you please link - I haven't seen anything like it, just a bland comment from the school that they are 'investigating'.

"..what for because they were taught some thing new THEY ARE FUCKING YEAR SEVENS THEY ARE GOING TO LIE AS WELL ESPECIALLY IF THEY GOT THEM SELVES DETENTION BECAUSE U LIE TO MAKE WHAT YOU'VE DONE NOT SEEM AS BAD AND YOU'VE BEEN WRONGLY PUNISHED.."

Unfortunately, you can't just assume that they are lying because they are children who got detention - that's what the investigation will prove.

"...BUT THIS GOT OUT OF HAND AND SHOULD BE DROPPED IMMEDIATELY..."

No, it should be investgated - just like any other complaint. Or do you think we should do away with rules because you don't like them?

Anonymous said...

If someone did this to my children, they would not have a teaching job too long.

Little Miss Pipedream said...

you can also not assume juliam that these children are telling the truth.
the article has been in all of the tabloid newspapers that are known for lying and over exaggerating, they don't care who they take down to get a "good" story.
miss phillips has done nothing wrong she was just trying to create a fun lesson for her year 7 pupils because she is passionate about her job.
if you were in her position would you want complete idiots (cough you!) that do not have a clue what went on in that classroom making snide remarks about you being fired. i think not.
i think you should give up now because you blates don't have a clue.
to sum this story up; a complete misunderstanding & we are prepared to defend this teacher until she gets her job back.

JuliaM said...

"you can also not assume juliam that these children are telling the truth."

Hence the need for the investigation, and to ensure that all parties get a chance to tell their side.

"the article has been in all of the tabloid newspapers that are known for lying and over exaggerating, they don't care who they take down to get a "good" story."

Yes, they have been found to be 'economical with the real story' in the past, so that should have been the first thing on the deputy head's mind when he was approached for the quote. We have a Press Complaints organisation, and they will take action if it is found that this story is inaccurate or misleading.

"..but
miss phillips has done nothing wrong she was just trying to create a fun lesson for her year 7 pupils because she is passionate about her job."


Sometimes, people 'passionate about their job' can overstep the mark - we need to find out if that is the case.

"..if you were in her position would you want complete idiots (cough you!) that do not have a clue what went on in that classroom making snide remarks about you being fired. i think not."

We have freedom of speech in this country. I'm using mine. You're using yours. Would you have it any other way?

"i think you should give up now because you blates don't have a clue. "

'blates'..? A misspelling, or a word the youngsters use that I'm not familiar with?

"to sum this story up; a complete misunderstanding & we are prepared to defend this teacher until she gets her job back."

I'm sure she'll thank you for the quality of your defence, and I will indeed be watching to se what happens in this case.

Little Miss Pipedream said...

i never said they shouldn't investigate it.
in certain circumstances the phrase "if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all" comes to mind.
what is it with your constant use of "we need to do this... we need to do that..." who are you?
& im sure she will thank me as you keep mentioning the school are doing such a rubbish job of defending the poor woman.

Anonymous said...

JuliaM do you enjoy rephrasing what people say....


GET A FUCKING IFE

JuliaM said...

"..in certain circumstances the phrase "if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all" comes to mind."

Sorry, but the world doesn't run on moonbeams and candyfloss, much as we may want it to. This is a legitimate subject for comment.

"what is it with your constant use of "we need to do this... we need to do that..." who are you?"

I'm a taxpayer. And I'm exercising my freedom of speech. Any problem with that?

"im sure she will thank me as you keep mentioning the school are doing such a rubbish job of defending the poor woman."

You're better off addressing that complaint to them.

"JuliaM do you enjoy rephrasing what people say....


GET A FUCKING IFE"


Another modern education system graduate joins the debate, I see!

You know, if these vociferous defenders of Ms Phillips are current or ex-pupils, I wonder if more doesn't need looking at than just the RE teaching.

Little Miss Pipedream said...

yeahh to be honest i do have a problem with you commenting on this particular subject as you for one DO NOT know both sides of the story so are unable to accurately contribute to this particular debate as a tax payer.
why don't you address your own complaint to them hmm?
yeah maybe alsager does need looking at i mean what are we being taught there; loyalty. oh wait isn't that a good thing?

Electrichloe said...

I think you should be sticking to the topic on hand don't you, juliam? instead of insulting Britain's education system, which has seen me receive straight A grades in my time under it.

"Unfortunately, you can't just assume that they are lying because they are children who got detention - that's what the investigation will prove."

We're not just assuming these children are lying. We know they're lying from the fact that we have met these year 7s and seen how they react once thrown into detention. We have spoken to pupils involved and heard their story and not the tabloids story.

We can argue as much as we like who was in the wrong here, but when I really think about it, I don't see a bright future for Miss Phillips... due to the close-minded, quick-to-jump-to-conclusions, arrogant older generation which seem to think that the world should never adapt to change.

JuliaM said...

"yeahh to be honest i do have a problem with you commenting on this particular subject as you for one DO NOT know both sides of the story so are unable to accurately contribute to this particular debate as a tax payer."

Ah, I didn't realise my freedom to speak and think for myself was qualified by the need to do an exhaustive investigation into both sides of the story first.

Tell you what, thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stick to the tried and trusted method of commenting on the facts and stories as they emerge, and changing my mind accordingly.

"...yeah maybe alsager does need looking at i mean what are we being taught there; loyalty. oh wait isn't that a good thing?"

Loyalty? Yes, it's often a good thing. Blind loyalty, not so much...

JuliaM said...

"I think you should be sticking to the topic on hand don't you, juliam? instead of insulting Britain's education system, which has seen me receive straight A grades in my time under it."

Well, the education system and the current state it is in pretty much IS the topic on hand. Also, I received straight A grades too, albeit a long time before you. And I think standards were a teensy bit higher in my day, to jusge from the test papers I've seen recently...

"We're not just assuming these children are lying. We know they're lying from the fact that we have met these year 7s and seen how they react once thrown into detention. We have spoken to pupils involved and heard their story and not the tabloids story."

So, you'll be proved correct at the investigation then, won't you, and Ms Phillips exonerated, and the newspapers will print an apology. Granted, it'll not get the coverage the original story got (probably be buried on page 16) but the pupils will have learnt something about how the world works, and how the media can sometimes manipulate the facts. Think of it as a teaching moment.

"...when I really think about it, I don't see a bright future for Miss Phillips... due to the close-minded, quick-to-jump-to-conclusions, arrogant older generation which seem to think that the world should never adapt to change."

'Change'..? Where does 'change' come into it?

You've defended the position of the teacher as having done nothing out of the ordinary from any other school RE lesson, and falling prey to a malicious accusation.

So please, enlighten us all as to where the 'change' has come into it?

Little Miss Pipedream said...

i think you should seriously consider things before you say them.
what is this blind loyalty you speak of? because that is not happening in this situation love.
i am assuming you are considerably older than me by your attitude but i believe that we as youngsters are capable of keeping an open mind unlike your older generation in situations like these.

JuliaM said...

"i think you should seriously consider things before you say them."

Cheers for that top tip. It's something I actually do a lot. But I think you know that, and you'd just rather I didn't say anything you disagreed with, wouldn't you...?

"i am assuming you are considerably older than me by your attitude but i believe that we as youngsters are capable of keeping an open mind unlike your older generation in situations like these."

Yup, you've got all the right answers, and the 'older generation' know nothing. I used to think like you, probably when I was your age. Now however, I know differently!

That realisation will happen to you too, one day.

Little Miss Pipedream said...

now you're just making rude remarks about my own opinion.
yes you're very mature haha.

JuliaM said...

"now you're just making rude remarks about my own opinion.
yes you're very mature haha."


Where's the 'rudeness' in anything I've written?

Let me see....no profanity, no all capital letters....

Nope, nothing rude about it at all.

Electrichloe said...

"Well, the education system and the current state it is in pretty much IS the topic on hand. Also, I received straight A grades too, albeit a long time before you. And I think standards were a teensy bit higher in my day, to jusge from the test papers I've seen recently..."

Yes I can see the standards are considerably higher as I can tell from your spelling of judge

"'Change'..? Where does 'change' come into it?

You've defended the position of the teacher as having done nothing out of the ordinary from any other school RE lesson, and falling prey to a malicious accusation.

So please, enlighten us all as to where the 'change' has come into it?"


Change comes into the way people learn in the classroom now compared to when people learned when back in your day. Many tests have revealed that people can not be pigeon-holed into one particular method of learning, for example some people learn visually, while others learn through doing. An example of helping these particular learners are roleplays. The fact that you sing praises of the way education was handled back when you were at school shows your not one to handle these changes. Can you accept that there are some students under this new modern way of learning that are just as smart as you think you are? Can you accept that some of these students feel that Miss Phillips was merely trying to help them learn rather than convert?

"Where's the 'rudeness' in anything I've written?

Let me see....no profanity, no all capital letters....

Nope, nothing rude about it at all."


I don't think you should be scolding Little Miss Pipedream about that, after all she is not the one who used capitals of profanities. There are just unfortunately some people who result to this.

Little Miss Pipedream said...

Where's the 'rudeness' in anything I've written?

Let me see....no profanity, no all capital letters....

Nope, nothing rude about it at all.

blah blah blah
what does this have to do with the article at hand?
nothing. it's just snide comments from wannabe mp.

JuliaM said...

"Yes I can see the standards are considerably higher as I can tell from your spelling of judge"

There's always someone who doesn't understand the difference between a typo and a spelling mistake...

"Change comes into the way people learn in the classroom now compared to when people learned when back in your day. Many tests have revealed that people can not be pigeon-holed into one particular method of learning, for example some people learn visually, while others learn through doing. An example of helping these particular learners are roleplays. "

You don't roleplay an act of worship. Ever. You just don't.

As well as being stupid to leave yourself open to accusations of trying to 'convert' those of another faith, it's an incredibly thoughtless gesture in itself, and offensive to those of that religion.

And I say that as an atheiest!

"I don't think you should be scolding Little Miss Pipedream about that.."

Actually, I wasn't, as you pointed out, it was the 'anon' who used caps and profanity. But since I'm accused of 'rudeness' for failing to agree with her way of thinking, I felt it only helpful to point out just what constitutes 'rudeness' on the Internet.

JuliaM said...

"blah blah blah
what does this have to do with the article at hand?
nothing. it's just snide comments from wannabe mp."


I see I needen't have bothered, 'Little Miss Pipedream' is fully aware of what constitutes rudeness, and deploys it whenever she loses an argument.

You'll go far with that attitude, kiddo...

Electrichloe said...

"There's always someone who doesn't understand the difference between a typo and a spelling mistake..."

Oh I'm sorry, it must have been the old age then, as you seem to think is so important to keep pointing out.

"As well as being stupid to leave yourself open to accusations of trying to 'convert' those of another faith, it's an incredibly thoughtless gesture in itself, and offensive to those of that religion."

When have I ever left myself over to accusations of trying to convert? I was talking about the different ways in people learn not about which religion they should follow

JuliaM said...

"When have I ever left myself over to accusations of trying to convert? I was talking about the different ways in people learn not about which religion they should follow"

I wasn't talking about you (whichever commenter you actually are - 'electricloe'...?) but about the teacher using 'role play' in a religious education context.

You don't learn about another religion by parroting it's beliefs and worship rites. That will get you accused of attempting a conversion!

Clear now...?

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